This essentially meant that any customer that came to us to buy a face mask had to buy two, and the second one would be donated to a person in need who doesn’t have the means to buy a reusable face mask. We owned this to stay true to our values, but what happened is that it was a nice story and the media loved it.

That’s where we again found our voice and a space. Everybody started writing about how The Social Outfit has this model, and we sold over 10,000 face masks which is incredible for such a small work room like ours.

Absolutely it is Camilla. Throughout all of this process and in working closely with these women Camilla, where have you seen opportunities to better support refugee women in employment and integration?

Well, when people ask me, “why do you do this, these women could get government support in Australia, you don’t need to give them a job,” I say, “a job in Australia for these women represents so much more than a paycheck.” It’s a step towards integration, being confident and ultimately independence.

It’s really important, but the first job is so hard to get. In fact, for us, 90% of the women we hire we have provided them with their first Australian job. What I would love employers in Australia to think about is that when you see someone who comes from another country, do consider what they did in that other country, don’t erase their past completely.

It doesn’t matter if they haven’t worked here, they had good experiences to bring and bear from their past. Let’s not discriminate against them because of that, otherwise they will be stuck. It’s really important that they work and it’s also really important that we listen to them and to what their aspirations are. I find that a lot of these women in Australia get channeled into a particular area and that’s aged care. But some of them might have completely different wishes, desires and skills. We know that it’s not until you do what you’re passionate about that you do it really well.

What advice then would you be offering to other women who are aspiring to enter these leadership roles in their organisation? Because one thing you’re doing is providing support to refugee women or migrant women to enter the workforce, but for those who have deeper experience and are really looking to lead an organisation, what have you learned?

I’ve learned that it’s important to forget your imposter syndrome. We all have it, so just don’t listen to it, don’t give it the space that it’s trying to get, and don’t be scared of your ideas.

I used to whisper my ideas in the ears of the big bosses at the UN, and then see them own those ideas and say them out loud and everybody’s clapping. I’d be thinking, “why did I do that?”

Don’t make my mistake, I think women need to be brave and have the courage to stand up for their ideas. At the same time, do not ever forget to be kind because being kind always pays off.

Then the other advice I have [which is again something I learned recently] is don’t be scared to make change. I made a massive change in my career going from the global stage to the local, and I’ve proven to myself that I could do it. Also, I’ve never been happier! Change is good.

It’s frightening though, isn’t it?

Absolutely, it’s terrifying. When I was working at the Institute for Economics and Peace for example, the founder of the Institute knew nothing about peace research, theory, and the science behind it. He is a school dropout that made a lot of money in the tech space and then set up the foundation. But his brain applied to the problem of how you build peace in countries was incredible, he brought so much innovation to the field.

I think it’s not only experts that are required, but also it is more important to have people from different sectors who have moved around in order to ensure that we bring that innovation and those new ideas forward.

We’ve started delving into some other projects that are creating some really positive social change, so what inspiring projects or initiatives have you come across recently which you think are just creating excellent change?

If I can be totally self-serving here, I’d love to mention an initiative that we are working on at The Social Outfit which is called Wear the Change. In my international career, I got really frustrated and sick of the fact that my suitcase was always four times bigger than my counterparts, and It was because of this pressure that women have to wear a different outfit every day.