But it is because it’s more of a new idea and you’ve got a lot of commercial businesspeople that are still quite uncomfortable with the concept. I understand why that gap exists, but that would’ve been the opportunity that missed out.

What advice would you give other founders looking to scale their purpose-led enterprise?

Scaling is something that we’re trying to work out well at the moment as well. I’m not sure if I’m in the best position to give this advice. I think every time it seems really hard, or you have those kinds of more existential questions. I just remember that we are paving a new path, so it’s going to be hard. And I guess the advice would just be, what have you got to lose? Like, why not? We’re here doing radical things to create radical change, to support people that need our support. We just need to keep going and that’s something that my dad’s kept reminding me of as well. He goes, “who cares if it fails, you’re doing great.” Just keep going. I think as a collective, as a community. We know that this change needs to happen, so I think I’m a bit of a believer in following that energy as well.

If you’re really committed to seeing it through, then people will follow. So just keep going. It is hard, but it’s worth it.

Having seen burnout affect a wide variety of people in the social enterprise space, what practical advice would you give to other founders to help them stay on top of their mental health?

I’m so glad you’re bringing this up with me because it is not discussed enough. Burnout is so real and it’s really important that we, in the ecosystem, look out for each other. I think one of the most practical reminders I give myself is that I’m not meant to know it all, and I’m not meant to be perfect. I think social enterprise it’s pretty cutting edge and it is quite new. Often you find yourself in a leadership scenario in some capacity, whether it’s just sport leadership or beyond, and that maybe it’s self-prescribed or other people put that pressure on you, and you feel like you need to know all the answers, which is just unrealistic.

One of the most practical reminders I give myself is: you’re meant to make mistakes and you’re not meant to know it all.

That simple reminder has been really helpful for me because it also gives me the freedom to be myself, just relaxed and laid back and have a joke and not take life too seriously. That is really important for me personally. And in that, just surround myself with people that are willing to have fun and have a joke because life is meant to be enjoyed. Yes, you can do important things and it’s a really purposeful and powerful way to spend your time, but you do have to sit back and have a cocktail every now and then. Put your feet up, think you’re doing well. You’re allowed to have a break too.

That permission to have a break. And that other technique sounds like just a really good way to keep some of the pressure off and to enjoy the journey rather than constantly searching for and reaching that big goal that you might set out to have at the beginning.

I’d also say just be honest, talk about when you’re having bad mental health days because no one’s happy every single day of the year. It’s really nice to share that experience with other people and really healthy to share the burden.

What inspiring projects or initiatives have you come across recently which are creating positive social change?

There are so many brilliant organisations running about, doing some really phenomenal stuff. I’ve been really inspired by Clothing the Gaps, I know it’s a bigger name in the social enterprise sphere, but it’s just such important work. And anything in that space of Indigenous rights and reconciliation is quite exciting for me. It just makes sense that pursuing this movement in Australia, that’s very far neglected so far.

There’s another great organisation in SA Trash who are using this technology to refine agricultural waste and they’re creating this new plastic technology. That’s just so exciting to me, because they’ve taken the time to think about what do we want to get rid of? And they’ve got agricultural waste, and plastic waste and they’ve transformed this circular economy technology. The circular economy makes me really excited because we get to solve two problems at once or more than that even.

To finish off, what books would you recommend to our listeners?

I think my go to for social enterprise would be Muhammad Yunus, A World of Three Zeros. That’s such a Bible for me, in terms of how we can actually pursue practical and realistic change in social enterprise. But mostly I have to admit, my mum’s a librarian and one of the methods in which I escape the pressure of day to day is through fiction novels; I love them. So, I’d have to say I’m reading Everyone In My Family Has Killed Someone. It’s just a hilarious crime fiction, I think it’s important to escape through words as well as TV.